Identifying Incels
A few influencers are getting rich by appealing to insecure young men, telling them that their lack of success with women is 100% the fault of women. This victimhood narrative is attractive because it allows someone who is angry and dissatisfied with their station in life to blame others for all of their problems. It shouldn’t be hard to see why a man who never reflects on how to improve himself and faults women for his lack of romantic success will have a hard time establishing a happy relationship with a woman. All that spouting these ideologies will do is make the incel (“involuntary celibate”) even less attractive to women, and I’ll explain why.
In writing about incels, I do not intend to change anyone’s opinion. I am taking you on a safari through the world of redpill/men going their own way/incel/manosphere talking points because women may find it valuable to be able to identify and ignore men like this. If your friend or child starts repeating these talking points, perhaps you can help them see how counterproductive they are. That’s my main objection — not the pervasive misogyny — ultimately, these ideologies don’t improve outcomes for those who believe in them.
The following are common themes of discussion in these spaces:
Obsessing over body count / comparing women to objects
“Men don’t want to date the town bicycle/a used car!”
While it is reasonable for members of both sexes to prefer a partner who hasn’t had an extraordinarily high number of past sexual partners, the level of vitriol and emotionality that incels dedicate to shaming women about high body count sets them apart. Think of it this way: while it’s perfectly rational for women to prefer a rich man, how many women dedicate energy to shaming poor men online? Even if such women exist, wouldn’t we agree that they have psychological issues and are best avoided?
Expressing strong feelings about body count or focusing on it are indications of low mate value. Men who are easily able to attract women don’t spend their time complaining about “whores” — they’re too busy enjoying their popularity. Incels know that they have low value in the dating market and try to undercut women’s self-esteem, hoping “If I convince her she’s low status too, she’ll be more likely to choose me.” They also hope that by yelling enough about body count, other men will also devalue women, again improving their chances.
Of course, incels like to push back and insist “No one wants to be with these women because STDs / paternity uncertainty / poor pair-bonding potential” but all of this is cope. If women (yes, even women with high body count) showed interest in the incel, he would change his tune instantly.
Harassing women with high standards
“You will end up alone with cats if you don’t lower your Disney princess standards!”
Again, the goal of the incel is to lower a woman’s estimation of her own value instead of rising to meet her standards. It’s the same strategy as above and it reinforces why these men are best avoided. If he’s interested in her, he should work to improve until he meets her standards. Or, if they’re impossible (e.g., a height standard), he can try to charm and seduce her so that she sets aside her standards willingly in light of everything else she likes about him. If he’s not interested, why waste energy telling her what her standards should be?
Speaking for all men
It is, in general, worth avoiding people who declare their own preferences as universal truths. This type of overconfident generalization is common amongst incels. They simply assert that their own desires apply to all men, so if a woman wants a committed relationship with any man, she must conform to this particular incel’s declared preferences. Usually, this involves sex whenever he wants it. Which brings us to our next point:
General disdain for women
This and sentiments like “women aren’t good for anything but sex” are common amongst incels. They see women as sex objects and prefer the company of men. While there’s no problem with men liking male company, it should be obvious to women that being in a relationship with a man who thinks she has no value other than being his fleshlight will not be rewarding for her. What to notice here is whether he listens well/remembers what she says and whether he responds in a way that indicates he values her opinion. Incels are not good actors — the disdain will be obvious.
Poor theory of mind
A characteristic of incels is that they are unskilled at creating a mental model for women. They have no idea how women think and they aren’t interested learning. They won’t listen when women tell them they’re wrong. For example, they believe:
“Women choose men for one night stands on the basis of who they are most sexually attracted to.”
I discovered this via all the responses to this tweet thread about whether it’s a compliment that a woman told her boyfriend that she didn’t see him a as hookup or “friends with benefits” candidate, but marriage material. It didn’t matter that a majority of female respondents in a poll I ran said they’re more sexually attracted to “husband material” than a one night stand. It also didn’t seem to matter how many women say that they engage in one night stands for much the same reasons that men do: circumstances/convenience, loneliness, drunkenness. Incels have decided that women only have one night stands with men they find sexually irresistible.
“Women are shallow, only interested in tall/attractive/rich men”
Believing that women choose men based on a few superficial and difficult to change characteristics frees incels from having to take any responsibility for their lack of success with women. No wonder the ideology is gaining popularity: “Nothing is your fault and there’s nothing you can do to change your fate” is a comforting lie. But it also robs an individual of agency and the will to improve their situation. I think it’s fair to say that women do not generally find whining attractive, nor do they love being characterized as shallow — who does?
Transactional view on relationships
“What do women bring to the table?”
“Women throw themselves at the top 10% of men, offering them sex and hoping for commitment.”
Incels think of women as sex vending machines and closely monitor how much they are “charged” for sex relative to other men. Do they have to take her out on dates first? How many? Do they have to promise some kind of commitment? Spend time with her? Listen to her talk? How long do they have to wait? How many days spent texting? How many phone conversations? How much spent on flowers or gifts? Paranoia about being “charged more” than other men also leads to incels being stingy and suspicious — then they wonder why women find them unattractive…
The transactional view of relationships is a natural consequence of developing a general disdain for women. When a common incel mantra is “the only thing of value that a woman can offer is sex”, everything else about being in a relationship becomes a burden only undertaken in exchange for sex. This bleak view on relationships robs the incel of his ability to enjoy a woman as a person because he can’t see her as one — just a sex doll.
Hating feminism
Those with low mate value hate anything that gives women more freedom to choose. They hate birth control and abortions because these remove the consequences of women having sex as casually as men do. They hate that women can work outside of the home and make enough money not to have to depend on a man. Some even hate the 19th amendment for giving women the right to vote. Indeed, research has shown that low mate value is correlated with anti-feminist beliefs.
Ultimately, hating feminism is a confession that these men cannot compete when women have choices. They’re confessing “I don’t want women to have a choice because I know they won’t choose me.”
This is already longer than I expected. I am sure I’m missing a few common talking points — comment and I’ll include them if I write on this again. I had wanted to write about how someone can help steer young men away from this fruitless path, but I don’t know enough about that yet. If you have resources on de-programming incels, feel free to share. For now, I just have this:
Evaluate an ideology that you apply to your own life based on the results of buying into it. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter whether redpill generalizations about women are true or not. What matters is whether seeing women as shallow, selfish, materialistic, irrational, annoying whores unworthy of your time will make you happier as a person who likes to have sex with women. Do you think it will?
These are all gross generalizations but so far as I can tell, mostly true. I haven’t dug too far into the incel community because I don’t have time for that nonsense but I am concerned about the demographic collapse, so I wonder why young people are having fewer children and less sex in general.
Part of it is that women are doing better economically than they used to, compared to men. More women are getting college degrees than men. If they are maintaining a standard that their husbands should be at least as well educated and make as much money, then this decreases their pool of available men. But men with good educations and high paying jobs have always been at a premium.
Some men are simply unmarriagable: high school dropouts with no steady incomes for example. I have three relatives that are ex-cons who don’t really bring much to the table. Not surprisingly, they are unmarried and fatherless - as far as I can tell - and have no prospects. They all have some pretty serious personality defects. They are “incels” but probably would have been in any time. I have another relative who is mentally ill, on disability, but takes his meds and does a good job keeping his mental and physical fitness and is a kind person. He has no problem dating, all single mothers as far as I can tell. He is divorced and has a daughter he is raising by himself. He is not an incel but he brings the minimum to the table: at least enough money to not be a burden and a willingness to do his share and more of the difficult and thankless work of keeping a household and raising children.
Then there is the other kind of “incel”, the kind that has a job and is not an ex-con or mentally ill and complains that women his age won’t lower their standards. Ironically enough, he refuses to lower his standards as well. There are plenty of women who are single moms who would love to date and marry a man who would hold up his end of the relationship. Most of these incels believe that they should be able to marry a woman who is educated (like they are), attractive, and modest. These women are able to be choosy and they will pick men who bring some combination of money, fidelity and willingness to do housework to the relationship. Unfortunately, these men have tended to steer themselves in the “red pill” direction and expect traditional gender roles on their relationships. If you can’t make as much money and are not as educated and expect your wife to do most of the housework, why would a woman want to raise children with you?
There is also the general society wide issue that marrying later is approved of, having fewer children is the norm and it is acceptable to not have children at all. All these issues have a cascading impact, leading to low and declining birth rates.
She shows a complete lack of understanding of any of the issues. Not a single person makes th it's all women's fault and men don't improve themselves. We know this because young men are more likely to be physically fit than young women. Also the idea that men that who treat women badly have less success with women is just laughable. Over the last 10 years or so 2/3 of men are now single but the amount of women being mudered by their boyfriends or husbands has barely changed.