A few thoughts. First let me say that I am completely sympathetic to the Asian community in San Francisco when it comes to debates surrounding education. Asian students behave exemplarily, and this is reflected in virtually every education statistic we collect. The idea that the black community is somehow the victim of the Asian community, or that the Asians are abetting black disadvantage, is preposterous. The solution to racial achievement gaps will come from blacks choosing to be successful, not convincing others that they're already successful or only prevented from being so because another group oppresses them.
But...I take issue with the "we just want to be left alone" part. Here's my perspective as a white living in a (recently) majority Asian neighborhood in SF: Asians can be a little chilly toward non-Asians. When I walk into my building and I see another Asian resident I'm given a cold, blank stare without so much as a hello, despite my attempt to smile and say hi. When I step on to the bus to go to work in the morning I'm met with a lot of eyes just looking at me. No hello, good morning, or even "excuse me" as they push past. They're also all wearing masks, all the time, even when they're outside by themselves, and while it's certainly not illegal to do that it sends the message that Asians are indifferent to the norms and attitudes of non-Asians; are kind of neurotic and paranoid about public health; and (I'm admittedly extrapolating somewhat) don't really believe in the democratic ideal that free men and women should show their faces in public as equals.
To be clear, there's no equating Asian aloofness with actual violence. They're not only not in the same ballpark, they're different sports, as Jules Winnfield memorably put it. All I'm saying is that if blacks would do well to use their heads a little more, Asians could learn to use their hearts.
Diane has gone out on a limb here and I commend her for her outspokenness in doing so. She essentially ended any chance of running for citywide elected office in SF (if she had any interest) as did Ann Hsu when her more if not totally politically correct faux pas lost her the election. Nobody wants trouble while going about their business and if that desire to be left alone encompasses the whole of mafan I would say it’s nothing new. But I sense there’s something more in this regard about the culture of the Chinese than was alluded to by Diane. Maybe it has to do with what Matthew said, though aloofness can hardly be the cause of attacks. Plenty of people are “chilly” out in public, myself included. I see Asians as respectful as any, if not more so. There is something racially-motivated about the attacks on Asians. They are the last ones to cause confrontation in my opinion. The blame always goes to the perpetrator and the effort to blame the victim is just another example of progressivism’s moral bankruptcy.
The attacks do seem racially motivated, yes. The violence seems to be primarily "thrill-seeking", which the offender does “because of boredom, to have fun, and to feel strong” (Youth hate crimes’ identification, prevention, and intervention. American Journal of Psychiatry, 2003.) Additionally, blacks might perceive Asians as displacing them, both in their immediate neighborhoods and more generally in society, the so called "minority-specific" model of hate crime.
What I'm saying is, I think that the public would pay more attention to Asian-American issues, including and especially violence against Asians, if Asian-Americans aspired to more than being "left alone."
As a thought experiment, suppose a group of Americans decided to go to Japan, but they only wanted to be "left alone"; that is, they never wanted to learn Japanese, live in majority-Japanese neighborhoods, eat Japanese food, or have their children identify as and associate with Japanese. They simply wanted to live entirely as they did in the United States. Do you think the native Japanese would see this group of Americans positively? Do you think they would be deeply invested in violence against them?
One step forward in helping the Asian (or maybe I should say Chinese) community here will be to get them to engage more with the wider society. When the Chinese demonstrate that the they care about being American, Americans will care more about the well-being of Chinese.
In the context of my post, "wanting to be left alone" means "allowed to live their lives in peace, without being targeted for crime or violence."
The examples you give in your hypothetical are more like "refusal to assimilate" -- and I don't think Asians in America are refusing to learn English, eat American food, associate with American-ness, etc. In fact, my understanding is that it's quite the opposite: that most Asian children of immigrants try really hard to assimilate.
Why eat American food when you can dine on a rotating five course Chinese feast every night?
First it was an eye for an eye. Then is was an eye for fifty Hail Marys. Now it’s I’ll take the eye, the free meal and a fix. Raskilnakov gets an eight year Caribbean cruise for axe murdering two sisters. Ain’t American justice grand? The problem isn’t that we don’t know how to protect the public or how to rehabilitate people who want to be rehabilitated. The problem is the Deep State, the oligarchs and their media co-conspirators have hypnotized the public with 5th generation psy ops airfare to divide and conquer the nation to keep themselves permanently in power without the American constitutional republic getting in their way. The problem with our justice system is the same one as the problem with our educational system, our financial system and every other system. It’s totally corrupted. A list of fixes means nothing without the will of the people to execute them.
First, it's just a different culture. You don't see the Chinese being any friendlier to strangers who are Chinese either. They're not singling out you or Americans. They just don't have the same default public friendliness or sense of neighborliness that you do. I remember back in the 1960s there used to be a joke about two British people stranded on an island who wouldn't speak to each other because they hadn't been properly introduced. I don't hear any self righteous criticism of the British or Scandinavians for having a more reserved culture. It shouldn't be surprising that people from different countries/cultures have different social norms, and I think there's no reason to think that everyone should adopt American norms. The Melting Pot viewpoint is a thing of the past.
Secondly, in the US we are just a generation or two removed from a time when minorities faced blatant racism. In my parents' time, it was neither expected nor acceptable for Chinese to treat Whites as friends or even equals. I know that in my childhood upbringing, I was taught to not be too loud in public, not run around in public, not be demanding of store clerks, and in general to not be conspicuous lest we incur public ire and judgement. This was so ingrained in me that as an adult I had to consciously learn to overcome this tendency to be reserved when I interviewed for a job or discussed projects with colleagues. I also know that when I interviewed Asian candidates for jobs, there was a palpable relief on their part when they saw that the interviewer was also Asian and their nervousness about being judged for being Asian was alleviated.
So maybe show a little more understanding and a little less judgement when interacting with people who may seem reserved but may actually just feel awkward around you.
"The Melting Pot viewpoint is a thing of the past"
It's scary to hear someone express that as if it's settled fact, but thankfully I think you're quite wrong. Living as segregated, separate cultures is never going to turn out well.
I need to criticize this. I am not from San Francsico, but I do live near Chicago's Chinatown, and I lived in Taiwan. Too many non-Asians make fun of a blank stare Chinese have, which I might add Russians and Cubans also have. South Koreans can often tell a North Korean by the same stare. This is the "thought police" stare. People from Hong Kong and Japan do not have it; while people from China always do, even if they are Xinjiang Turks. People get this when the KGB is always listening.
I have found that Chinese people are absolutely wonderful, but you need to make the first move. That is not to say there are not Chinese jerks, but no more than anybody else. I have worked in Chinese companies and in general been in entirely Chinese environments, and with few exceptions, they are wonderful people.
Now, the problem she is talking about is all too real. In general too many in the African-American community seem to not care about sexual assault and sexual harassment, and it is a real problem. It is a problem for Asian girls AND a problem for African-America girls as well, and the failure to address it is BS. I have heard all kinds of excuses, but in the end, it is simply counter-productive. Evil men are evil men, and they belong behind bars. Defending them because they have the same skin color is stupid.
At what point did you realize your mom was wildly exaggerating on the connection between not doing your homework and sleeping on a sidewalk in a pile of your own filth?
I'm honestly curious, because as a parent with a child that age I probably exaggerate causality at times to make a point, but I feel that going too far with it might backfire in many different ways.
I’m Chinese and Black. I have safety concerns about my elderly Chinese mother walking alone in SF. I also graduated from Lowell High School and currently have a child at Lowell High School. He was assigned Lowell through the lottery system.
I find this whole “black vs Asian” dichotomy dispiriting. When did we stop being individuals?
And yea, I faced sexual harassment too starting from age 10. Daily. By men (and women) of various skin tones. Somehow I never pinpointed a certain group as being “against” me, my kind, my gender, my (fill in the blank).
If we want to find solutions, we need to seeing and referring to each other as “Other.” Keep doing that and you just get more of the same-- mafan ugliness.
A few thoughts. First let me say that I am completely sympathetic to the Asian community in San Francisco when it comes to debates surrounding education. Asian students behave exemplarily, and this is reflected in virtually every education statistic we collect. The idea that the black community is somehow the victim of the Asian community, or that the Asians are abetting black disadvantage, is preposterous. The solution to racial achievement gaps will come from blacks choosing to be successful, not convincing others that they're already successful or only prevented from being so because another group oppresses them.
But...I take issue with the "we just want to be left alone" part. Here's my perspective as a white living in a (recently) majority Asian neighborhood in SF: Asians can be a little chilly toward non-Asians. When I walk into my building and I see another Asian resident I'm given a cold, blank stare without so much as a hello, despite my attempt to smile and say hi. When I step on to the bus to go to work in the morning I'm met with a lot of eyes just looking at me. No hello, good morning, or even "excuse me" as they push past. They're also all wearing masks, all the time, even when they're outside by themselves, and while it's certainly not illegal to do that it sends the message that Asians are indifferent to the norms and attitudes of non-Asians; are kind of neurotic and paranoid about public health; and (I'm admittedly extrapolating somewhat) don't really believe in the democratic ideal that free men and women should show their faces in public as equals.
To be clear, there's no equating Asian aloofness with actual violence. They're not only not in the same ballpark, they're different sports, as Jules Winnfield memorably put it. All I'm saying is that if blacks would do well to use their heads a little more, Asians could learn to use their hearts.
Diane has gone out on a limb here and I commend her for her outspokenness in doing so. She essentially ended any chance of running for citywide elected office in SF (if she had any interest) as did Ann Hsu when her more if not totally politically correct faux pas lost her the election. Nobody wants trouble while going about their business and if that desire to be left alone encompasses the whole of mafan I would say it’s nothing new. But I sense there’s something more in this regard about the culture of the Chinese than was alluded to by Diane. Maybe it has to do with what Matthew said, though aloofness can hardly be the cause of attacks. Plenty of people are “chilly” out in public, myself included. I see Asians as respectful as any, if not more so. There is something racially-motivated about the attacks on Asians. They are the last ones to cause confrontation in my opinion. The blame always goes to the perpetrator and the effort to blame the victim is just another example of progressivism’s moral bankruptcy.
The attacks do seem racially motivated, yes. The violence seems to be primarily "thrill-seeking", which the offender does “because of boredom, to have fun, and to feel strong” (Youth hate crimes’ identification, prevention, and intervention. American Journal of Psychiatry, 2003.) Additionally, blacks might perceive Asians as displacing them, both in their immediate neighborhoods and more generally in society, the so called "minority-specific" model of hate crime.
What I'm saying is, I think that the public would pay more attention to Asian-American issues, including and especially violence against Asians, if Asian-Americans aspired to more than being "left alone."
As a thought experiment, suppose a group of Americans decided to go to Japan, but they only wanted to be "left alone"; that is, they never wanted to learn Japanese, live in majority-Japanese neighborhoods, eat Japanese food, or have their children identify as and associate with Japanese. They simply wanted to live entirely as they did in the United States. Do you think the native Japanese would see this group of Americans positively? Do you think they would be deeply invested in violence against them?
One step forward in helping the Asian (or maybe I should say Chinese) community here will be to get them to engage more with the wider society. When the Chinese demonstrate that the they care about being American, Americans will care more about the well-being of Chinese.
In the context of my post, "wanting to be left alone" means "allowed to live their lives in peace, without being targeted for crime or violence."
The examples you give in your hypothetical are more like "refusal to assimilate" -- and I don't think Asians in America are refusing to learn English, eat American food, associate with American-ness, etc. In fact, my understanding is that it's quite the opposite: that most Asian children of immigrants try really hard to assimilate.
Why eat American food when you can dine on a rotating five course Chinese feast every night?
First it was an eye for an eye. Then is was an eye for fifty Hail Marys. Now it’s I’ll take the eye, the free meal and a fix. Raskilnakov gets an eight year Caribbean cruise for axe murdering two sisters. Ain’t American justice grand? The problem isn’t that we don’t know how to protect the public or how to rehabilitate people who want to be rehabilitated. The problem is the Deep State, the oligarchs and their media co-conspirators have hypnotized the public with 5th generation psy ops airfare to divide and conquer the nation to keep themselves permanently in power without the American constitutional republic getting in their way. The problem with our justice system is the same one as the problem with our educational system, our financial system and every other system. It’s totally corrupted. A list of fixes means nothing without the will of the people to execute them.
William, a couple of things to consider:
First, it's just a different culture. You don't see the Chinese being any friendlier to strangers who are Chinese either. They're not singling out you or Americans. They just don't have the same default public friendliness or sense of neighborliness that you do. I remember back in the 1960s there used to be a joke about two British people stranded on an island who wouldn't speak to each other because they hadn't been properly introduced. I don't hear any self righteous criticism of the British or Scandinavians for having a more reserved culture. It shouldn't be surprising that people from different countries/cultures have different social norms, and I think there's no reason to think that everyone should adopt American norms. The Melting Pot viewpoint is a thing of the past.
Secondly, in the US we are just a generation or two removed from a time when minorities faced blatant racism. In my parents' time, it was neither expected nor acceptable for Chinese to treat Whites as friends or even equals. I know that in my childhood upbringing, I was taught to not be too loud in public, not run around in public, not be demanding of store clerks, and in general to not be conspicuous lest we incur public ire and judgement. This was so ingrained in me that as an adult I had to consciously learn to overcome this tendency to be reserved when I interviewed for a job or discussed projects with colleagues. I also know that when I interviewed Asian candidates for jobs, there was a palpable relief on their part when they saw that the interviewer was also Asian and their nervousness about being judged for being Asian was alleviated.
So maybe show a little more understanding and a little less judgement when interacting with people who may seem reserved but may actually just feel awkward around you.
"The Melting Pot viewpoint is a thing of the past"
It's scary to hear someone express that as if it's settled fact, but thankfully I think you're quite wrong. Living as segregated, separate cultures is never going to turn out well.
I need to criticize this. I am not from San Francsico, but I do live near Chicago's Chinatown, and I lived in Taiwan. Too many non-Asians make fun of a blank stare Chinese have, which I might add Russians and Cubans also have. South Koreans can often tell a North Korean by the same stare. This is the "thought police" stare. People from Hong Kong and Japan do not have it; while people from China always do, even if they are Xinjiang Turks. People get this when the KGB is always listening.
I have found that Chinese people are absolutely wonderful, but you need to make the first move. That is not to say there are not Chinese jerks, but no more than anybody else. I have worked in Chinese companies and in general been in entirely Chinese environments, and with few exceptions, they are wonderful people.
Now, the problem she is talking about is all too real. In general too many in the African-American community seem to not care about sexual assault and sexual harassment, and it is a real problem. It is a problem for Asian girls AND a problem for African-America girls as well, and the failure to address it is BS. I have heard all kinds of excuses, but in the end, it is simply counter-productive. Evil men are evil men, and they belong behind bars. Defending them because they have the same skin color is stupid.
At what point did you realize your mom was wildly exaggerating on the connection between not doing your homework and sleeping on a sidewalk in a pile of your own filth?
I'm honestly curious, because as a parent with a child that age I probably exaggerate causality at times to make a point, but I feel that going too far with it might backfire in many different ways.
I’m Chinese and Black. I have safety concerns about my elderly Chinese mother walking alone in SF. I also graduated from Lowell High School and currently have a child at Lowell High School. He was assigned Lowell through the lottery system.
I find this whole “black vs Asian” dichotomy dispiriting. When did we stop being individuals?
And yea, I faced sexual harassment too starting from age 10. Daily. By men (and women) of various skin tones. Somehow I never pinpointed a certain group as being “against” me, my kind, my gender, my (fill in the blank).
If we want to find solutions, we need to seeing and referring to each other as “Other.” Keep doing that and you just get more of the same-- mafan ugliness.
And I have lived in Japan too. Americans who want to be left alone are left alone.
If 3/4 of all violent crime against Asians is committed by people who aren’t Black why is Diane only focused on the 1/4?
Very insightful article. Have you read Thomas Sowell's book "Discrimination and Disparities"?
Not yet, but it's on my list!