I haven’t said much publicly about transgender issues because those who are on my “side” politically (I’ve been cast as right-wing, you see) have been using it as a political football.
<Consider the contradictions when “medical professionals,” who we’d think should be hard-boiled, effective-cause materialists, at least in their own fields, take vulgar-essentialist atypicality in “gender preferences” (a girl who likes to wear “male” clothes, e.g.) as “evidence” that some kid is “inhabiting the wrong body,” based on the kid’s (now, often coached) self-reporting of “unease”!
I would point out that the table you provide does relate to the UK, but I think (from clues in your article) that you are in the US, and the two countries don't necessarily map onto each other very well.
Also 15 seconds of googling will demonstrate that people kill each other all the time. It may shock you to learn that a bunch of words written in Congress do not in fact offer any protection against murder. Anyone can just come up to you and kill you at any time, why even have laws?
Both my version and yours aren't pro or anti trans arguments btw, in case this parody didn't make that clear.
You're what my mom would call a Tom-Boy—still a girl, but an active girl who likes to be outside, climbing and jumping.
That wouldn't make you trans.
We keep using the wrong word. Instead of Trans-Gender, we should be using the word Transvestite. A man who likes to dress like a woman or a woman who likes to dress like a man.
Being a transvestite doesn't make you the opposite sex, and you can never be the opposite sex. After all, you can't change your biological genes. You are either XX or XY.
Male Transvestites shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces or women's sports. Female Transvestites shouldn't be in men's places or men's sports.
>>“No son of mine plays with dolls, that’s for girls!” What if that little boy liked playing with dolls? Would the conservative dad rather see his son conclude “I love playing with dolls, so I must be a girl”? Would he rather his son become his daughter instead?
Well, no, but luckily those aren't the only two choices. Indeed, the second is a fantasy not a choice. The choice that we conservative dads choose is 'It doesn't matter what you like or don't like, there are acceptable ways to behave."
A lot of young children, left to their druthers, would be nudists. They would happily parade around the house, the yard, and even WalMart stark naked. We conservative dads take the same view: You may like running around nude, but you may not. It isn't proper.
I'd go a little further in your libertarian approach. Employers should not be forced to continue to employ people who start to present as the sex opposite to what they were hired as. Being free to do as you wish should go with others' freedom to dissociate from you.
Diane, you agree quite closely with my pre-existing opinions. That must mean you're exactly right. ;)
I blame a lot of this on social media. People are hyper-exposed to tyrannical norms. We need to collectively decide that bucking gender norms is fine. Instead, we're creating a proliferation of categories so that each can have its own set of norms and every quirky individual can find a niche in which they are norm-conformant. Is targeted advertising part of this? I've seen no data, but it sounds logical that there is some interaction, probably unintentional, between advertisers' clustering of individuals, convergence of media feeds around those clusters, and the finer-scale crystallization of sub-cultures.
AGP is literally malarkey. Both cis and trans women have sexual fantasies in the 3rd person way more often than cis men who predominantly favor the 1st person.
If you are incorporating gametes and other complex biological concepts into your definition of men and women, then you are implying that people in the Middle Ages had no concept of man or woman. Dogs, as you said, seem to identify men or women even though they don't know what gametes are (dogs generally identify people as whatever gender they present as, there are lots of heartwarming stories of trans woman employees at veterinary clinics encountering a dog whose owner says "doesn't like men," only to have the dog love them).
Calling people stupid implies they are just not intelligent enough to understand the point you are making. I understand your point fine, the reason I'm still disagreeing with you is that your point is wrong.
In general I find that most anti-trans people are the ones that don't understand the point their opponents are making. They also tend to come across as mentally unsound, their writing style is paranoid, neurotic, and angry. I think those two facts are related, I think that anti-trans activists are so dense that they literally can't imagine someone disagreeing with them for real, so they instead come up with all sorts of sinister and paranoid conspiracy theories as to why people disagree with them.
I would recommend you step back, take a deep breath, and try to work on developing a theory of mind. I think you will find that it's much nicer to live in a world where you are able to understand that people seriously disagree with you. You won't have to impute sinister motives to everyone anymore, you can instead assume that the world is full of good people who believe different facts.
> If you are incorporating gametes and other complex biological concepts into your definition of men and women, then you are implying that people in the Middle Ages had no concept of man or woman.
No, it just means they just hadn't muddled the clear natural concept as much as we have, to be in need of incorporating gametes and other complex biological concepts in their discussion.
> They also tend to come across as mentally unsound, their writing style is paranoid, neurotic, and angry.
I’m a gender non-conforming bi-cis man, in that I like a lot of things that are stereotypically female. I’m really unsure about your last graph because the trans people who I know well enough that we’ve had really close talks about our experiences seem totally and completely different internal feelings.
Where mine is well I like a lot of things that are 75% plus proffered by women, I’ve never had any internal sense of femininity which both of the trans women I’m friends with would say they’ve had basically their whole lives. I’ve never wanted to reform my body into a basically different shape. What we have shared is targeted violence from other men and it’s hard for me to not understand the desire for refuge. I’ve never felt any of the kind of lack of acceptance from trans people or their advocates they all seem to know that people like me exist.
“No, government-provided health insurance shouldn’t cover “gender affirming” treatments. They want equality? This is equality: people who were born the “correct” gender don’t receive coverage for cosmetic procedures that help them conform closer to the stereotypical appearance of their gender. There’s no meaningful sense in which existing medical technology can change a male into a female or vice versa: all we can do right now is sterilize and disfigure. “
Great point!
Btw, gender affirming care is being paid for by taxpayers. It’s one of those little items that was added to the Affordable Care Act by unelected bureaucrats.
“They don’t say sex assigned at birth. They say gender assigned at birth.”
They say both.
Redefining words has been a strategy used to change laws without actually creating or changing laws. It started with marriage. They changed the definition of marriage to include same sex couples in order to make gay marriage legal.
I’m not against gay marriage but there was a reason that marriage was defined as being between one man and one woman, which is a whole other story.
This strategy was considered very successful and so they went on to use this strategy to advance social change and legal reforms.
Redefining the word male/female (men/women etc.) is the latest strategy used to change laws without having to create a bunch of new laws specifically for transgendered people.
I’m not against transgendered people, I’m against redefining words to change laws without having to discuss the consequences of said laws.
Beyond that, this strategy causes division and confusion in society. If everyone cannot define basic words the same, people cannot communicate with each other. This is what has been happening for the past two or three decades and is the reason for the deep divisions between the generations.
“people who were born the “correct” gender don’t receive coverage for cosmetic procedures that help them conform closer to the stereotypical appearance of their gender.”
Insurance covers TRT for aging dudes, and it’s very commonly stated that it makes men “feel like a man again”, with many comments about how it has given them better results from weightlifting. It’s pretty explicitly to make them conform closer to the stereotypical appearance of their gender. TRT for straight dudes is strictly elective gender affirming care that gets covered.
Gender Affirming Care never existed in the health care industry until the trans lobby started pushing for sex change legislation. This term was invented for the explicit purpose of supporting people who want to change their sex, in law and medically.
Gender clinics were created to help people who feel like they were born in the wrong body.
A biological male who wants to be treated with testosterone therapy is not doing so to change his sex, therefore it is not Gender Affirming Care. And he would not go to a Gender clinic to seek testosterone treatment.
Redefining “Gender Affirming Care” to include medical treatment for people who don’t feel like they were born in the wrong body is just a word game to confuse the issue.
Gender affirming care isn’t changing sex - sex is an immutable characteristic and is not changed. Most trans activists are in agreement about that if you ever interact with these people in person instead of whatever a social media algorithm feeds you.
RR - I think most transgender people agree, you don’t actually change your sex, (& should not give these meds or surgeries to minors), BUT the Trans Activists certainly do believe it. Hence, “A Trans Woman is a Woman”.
“Gender-affirming care, as defined by the World Health Organization, encompasses a range of social, psychological, behavioral, and medical interventions “designed to support and affirm an individual’s gender identity” when it conflicts with the gender they were assigned at birth.”
<Consider the contradictions when “medical professionals,” who we’d think should be hard-boiled, effective-cause materialists, at least in their own fields, take vulgar-essentialist atypicality in “gender preferences” (a girl who likes to wear “male” clothes, e.g.) as “evidence” that some kid is “inhabiting the wrong body,” based on the kid’s (now, often coached) self-reporting of “unease”!
Is there a diagnostic “ruling out” protocol? No.>
https://stanleyabner1951gmailcom.substack.com/p/trans-ideology
"Why would they want to force others to lie about what they perceive..."
Because it gives them power over others in many circumstances. In most companies, using the wrong pronouns will get you fired.
Compelling stats
I would point out that the table you provide does relate to the UK, but I think (from clues in your article) that you are in the US, and the two countries don't necessarily map onto each other very well.
Also 15 seconds of googling will demonstrate that people kill each other all the time. It may shock you to learn that a bunch of words written in Congress do not in fact offer any protection against murder. Anyone can just come up to you and kill you at any time, why even have laws?
Both my version and yours aren't pro or anti trans arguments btw, in case this parody didn't make that clear.
You're what my mom would call a Tom-Boy—still a girl, but an active girl who likes to be outside, climbing and jumping.
That wouldn't make you trans.
We keep using the wrong word. Instead of Trans-Gender, we should be using the word Transvestite. A man who likes to dress like a woman or a woman who likes to dress like a man.
Being a transvestite doesn't make you the opposite sex, and you can never be the opposite sex. After all, you can't change your biological genes. You are either XX or XY.
Male Transvestites shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces or women's sports. Female Transvestites shouldn't be in men's places or men's sports.
>>“No son of mine plays with dolls, that’s for girls!” What if that little boy liked playing with dolls? Would the conservative dad rather see his son conclude “I love playing with dolls, so I must be a girl”? Would he rather his son become his daughter instead?
Well, no, but luckily those aren't the only two choices. Indeed, the second is a fantasy not a choice. The choice that we conservative dads choose is 'It doesn't matter what you like or don't like, there are acceptable ways to behave."
A lot of young children, left to their druthers, would be nudists. They would happily parade around the house, the yard, and even WalMart stark naked. We conservative dads take the same view: You may like running around nude, but you may not. It isn't proper.
I'd go a little further in your libertarian approach. Employers should not be forced to continue to employ people who start to present as the sex opposite to what they were hired as. Being free to do as you wish should go with others' freedom to dissociate from you.
Diane, you agree quite closely with my pre-existing opinions. That must mean you're exactly right. ;)
I blame a lot of this on social media. People are hyper-exposed to tyrannical norms. We need to collectively decide that bucking gender norms is fine. Instead, we're creating a proliferation of categories so that each can have its own set of norms and every quirky individual can find a niche in which they are norm-conformant. Is targeted advertising part of this? I've seen no data, but it sounds logical that there is some interaction, probably unintentional, between advertisers' clustering of individuals, convergence of media feeds around those clusters, and the finer-scale crystallization of sub-cultures.
AGP is literally malarkey. Both cis and trans women have sexual fantasies in the 3rd person way more often than cis men who predominantly favor the 1st person.
Thank you for wading into this. I feel for those having been subjugated to these “educators” (more like programers).
This is still preditors behaving like predators (wolves in sheep's clothing).
Abhorrent acts. The perpetrators of these acts need to be brought to the light and atone for their perversions of our childern.
God's bless.
If you are incorporating gametes and other complex biological concepts into your definition of men and women, then you are implying that people in the Middle Ages had no concept of man or woman. Dogs, as you said, seem to identify men or women even though they don't know what gametes are (dogs generally identify people as whatever gender they present as, there are lots of heartwarming stories of trans woman employees at veterinary clinics encountering a dog whose owner says "doesn't like men," only to have the dog love them).
Calling people stupid implies they are just not intelligent enough to understand the point you are making. I understand your point fine, the reason I'm still disagreeing with you is that your point is wrong.
In general I find that most anti-trans people are the ones that don't understand the point their opponents are making. They also tend to come across as mentally unsound, their writing style is paranoid, neurotic, and angry. I think those two facts are related, I think that anti-trans activists are so dense that they literally can't imagine someone disagreeing with them for real, so they instead come up with all sorts of sinister and paranoid conspiracy theories as to why people disagree with them.
I would recommend you step back, take a deep breath, and try to work on developing a theory of mind. I think you will find that it's much nicer to live in a world where you are able to understand that people seriously disagree with you. You won't have to impute sinister motives to everyone anymore, you can instead assume that the world is full of good people who believe different facts.
> If you are incorporating gametes and other complex biological concepts into your definition of men and women, then you are implying that people in the Middle Ages had no concept of man or woman.
No, it just means they just hadn't muddled the clear natural concept as much as we have, to be in need of incorporating gametes and other complex biological concepts in their discussion.
> They also tend to come across as mentally unsound, their writing style is paranoid, neurotic, and angry.
Oh, the irony!
https://substack.com/@joaniewimmer/note/c-81579664?r=qjgnp&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1VwXwNRmTw7Jz13rljOxoXzb8_Wxv7xQ9z1i1ecriMpWDwjT8fe0q4WhE_aem_vFNDPtk-yEcU1V-YqvwmRg
I’m a gender non-conforming bi-cis man, in that I like a lot of things that are stereotypically female. I’m really unsure about your last graph because the trans people who I know well enough that we’ve had really close talks about our experiences seem totally and completely different internal feelings.
Where mine is well I like a lot of things that are 75% plus proffered by women, I’ve never had any internal sense of femininity which both of the trans women I’m friends with would say they’ve had basically their whole lives. I’ve never wanted to reform my body into a basically different shape. What we have shared is targeted violence from other men and it’s hard for me to not understand the desire for refuge. I’ve never felt any of the kind of lack of acceptance from trans people or their advocates they all seem to know that people like me exist.
“No, government-provided health insurance shouldn’t cover “gender affirming” treatments. They want equality? This is equality: people who were born the “correct” gender don’t receive coverage for cosmetic procedures that help them conform closer to the stereotypical appearance of their gender. There’s no meaningful sense in which existing medical technology can change a male into a female or vice versa: all we can do right now is sterilize and disfigure. “
Great point!
Btw, gender affirming care is being paid for by taxpayers. It’s one of those little items that was added to the Affordable Care Act by unelected bureaucrats.
“They don’t say sex assigned at birth. They say gender assigned at birth.”
They say both.
Redefining words has been a strategy used to change laws without actually creating or changing laws. It started with marriage. They changed the definition of marriage to include same sex couples in order to make gay marriage legal.
I’m not against gay marriage but there was a reason that marriage was defined as being between one man and one woman, which is a whole other story.
This strategy was considered very successful and so they went on to use this strategy to advance social change and legal reforms.
Redefining the word male/female (men/women etc.) is the latest strategy used to change laws without having to create a bunch of new laws specifically for transgendered people.
I’m not against transgendered people, I’m against redefining words to change laws without having to discuss the consequences of said laws.
Beyond that, this strategy causes division and confusion in society. If everyone cannot define basic words the same, people cannot communicate with each other. This is what has been happening for the past two or three decades and is the reason for the deep divisions between the generations.
“people who were born the “correct” gender don’t receive coverage for cosmetic procedures that help them conform closer to the stereotypical appearance of their gender.”
Insurance covers TRT for aging dudes, and it’s very commonly stated that it makes men “feel like a man again”, with many comments about how it has given them better results from weightlifting. It’s pretty explicitly to make them conform closer to the stereotypical appearance of their gender. TRT for straight dudes is strictly elective gender affirming care that gets covered.
This is a good point.
Nice try
If it’s most often explicitly to affirm the feeling of being a man how is it anything but gender affirming care?
Gender Affirming Care never existed in the health care industry until the trans lobby started pushing for sex change legislation. This term was invented for the explicit purpose of supporting people who want to change their sex, in law and medically.
Gender clinics were created to help people who feel like they were born in the wrong body.
A biological male who wants to be treated with testosterone therapy is not doing so to change his sex, therefore it is not Gender Affirming Care. And he would not go to a Gender clinic to seek testosterone treatment.
Redefining “Gender Affirming Care” to include medical treatment for people who don’t feel like they were born in the wrong body is just a word game to confuse the issue.
Nice try.
Gender affirming care isn’t changing sex - sex is an immutable characteristic and is not changed. Most trans activists are in agreement about that if you ever interact with these people in person instead of whatever a social media algorithm feeds you.
RR - I think most transgender people agree, you don’t actually change your sex, (& should not give these meds or surgeries to minors), BUT the Trans Activists certainly do believe it. Hence, “A Trans Woman is a Woman”.
More word games….
I know people cannot change sex but the entire movement has been working to redefine the meaning of men and women.
Why are there men playing sports on women’s teams?
Why are there men in women’s prisons?
Why is it legal to change your sex on your birth certificate and drivers license?
Why do they say sex assigned at birth?
Why couldn’t Ketanji Brown Jackson define what a woman is in her confirmation hearing?
Why were there protests on college campuses saying trans-women ARE women?
Your initial argument was that men who receive testosterone replacement therapy are getting gender affirming care. Totally wrong.
Now you are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. It’s tiring and I’m not arguing with you anymore.
“Gender-affirming care, as defined by the World Health Organization, encompasses a range of social, psychological, behavioral, and medical interventions “designed to support and affirm an individual’s gender identity” when it conflicts with the gender they were assigned at birth.”
Such a great write up - thank you